Usually, when people go on a road trip, it doesn’t involve searching for clues left behind by a serial killer.
But that’s exactly what two friends, Josh Ash and Dakota Williams, have been doing for the last three years. In upcoming months, starting in May, Ash and Williams will begin releasing episodes of their new podcast “Somewhere in the Pines”, which documents what they’re calling a “true crime adventure”.
Ash, from Vernonia, and Williams, from Portland, will document their search for potential clues left behind by Israel Keyes, considered the most meticulous serial killer in the U.S., who it’s believed is responsible for at least 11 abductions and murders, and possibly many more.
Americans have a disturbing interest in true crime stories, and an almost ghoulish fascination with serial killers and the horrific murders they have committed.
Keyes, may be the most compelling serial killer you’ve never heard of. After interrogating him in 2012, criminal profilers at the FBI considered Keyes the most terrifying subject they had ever encountered. And that’s part of what made him such an interesting subject for Ash and Williams.
Keyes was arrested for the abduction and murder of Samantha Koenig in Anchorage, Alaska in 2012. During interrogation he immediately confessed, and then over the course of approximately 30 additional interviews he cryptically led law enforcement to believe he was responsible for many more murders across the U.S. – in the Pacific Northwest, New England and New York, Wyoming, Florida, Texas, and in the Midwest. Keyes committed suicide while in police custody, before he could be tried for Koenig’s murder.
Keyes has been the subject of two books, “American Predator” by Maureen Callahan and “Devil in the Darkness” by JT Hunter, and featured on numerous television series that focus on serial killers, and discussed on multiple true crime podcasts. But Ash and Williams think they’ve found a unique way to investigate his crimes.
The Adventure Begins
Ash and Williams became interested in Israel Keyes for several reasons, but the most compelling was a unique part of his MO – his modus operandi. During his interrogations, Keyes told law enforcement he hid what he called “kill kits”, in various locations around the country. These caches, often in five gallon plastic buckets, included weapons, money, and other tools to assist him in abductions and murders.
Ash and Williams have set out to find those caches. And, rather than focus on the gritty and sensational details of Keyes’ crimes, they’ve decided to share the story of their adventures and the camaraderie they develop during the course of their travels.
Ash and Williams are not investigative reporters and have never worked in law enforcement. Neither had any experience in crime reporting, interviewing techniques, or producing podcasts. “Just because you have an interest in true crime, that doesn’t make you an investigator,” says Williams.
Ash is originally from New York, near Buffalo, and Williams grew up in Alaska. Ash attended film school in Florida and Williams ran a music recording studio in Alaska, before they both found themselves in Portland. They first met in 2006 when they played in a band together.
They both were working in construction many years later when they first heard about Keyes. “We were talking about doing something creative together again, maybe a podcast, and we heard this story about Israel Keyes and how he hid these murder kit caches out in the middle of nowhere, and how he had lived in places where both of us had lived – in Alaska, New York, Washington, and Oregon,” says Ash.
A number of Keyes’ characteristics made him a compelling character for them:
• He was a construction contractor who used five gallon plastic buckets, often used in the construction trades, to cache his kill kits.
• It’s believed Keyes killed and concealed several bodies in the Pacific Northwest, likely in the Olympic Mountains, a place Ash and his wife have frequently backpacked. “To learn there was a killer out there at that same time, scared the hell out of me,” says Ash.
• Williams and his family participate in geocaching, an outdoor recreation activity that involves using GPS coordinates to locate hidden containers, called caches, which often contain items for trading. “Geocaching and our search for the Keyes caches provide the same type of instinctual need to find the treasure or uncover the truth in one way or another,” says Williams. Keyes did not use GPS when he hid his caches in order to help avoid detection.
• Keyes was in Alaska and was an avid fisherman and Williams grew up in Alaska and worked in commercial fishing for a number of years. Keyes worked in construction and lived in New York and Ash grew up there.
“We just saw all these similarities and thought we could have crossed paths with this guy at some point in time or even multiple times,” says Williams.
And so, the idea for a podcast was born. “We thought we might be able to bring an interesting angle to the story, because we know so much about the areas where they think he was active, and about his job and the kind of lifestyle people in construction have,” says Ash.
“Our motivation is to find these caches that has items in it that can then tie him to an unknown victim,” says Williams.
The Making of a Murderer
Keyes grew up in Colville, Washington and Maupin, Oregon, served in the U.S. Army at Fort Hood, Texas, and Fort Lewis, Washington, before going into the construction contracting business in Alaska. He was fascinated with guns and read extensively about other serial killers, learning about their crimes and their methods.
Keyes was a meticulous planner who traveled extensively. His travel records show flights to one city, and then a rental car with unusual amounts of mileage on it. He would often check into a hotel and immediately leave, driving hundreds of miles away to commit a crime.
Despite his planning, his crimes appear random and involve victims of opportunity, what is known as stranger-on-stranger crimes; he stalked places, not victims. Because almost 3,000 people are reported missing across the U.S. EVERY DAY, his extensive travel often put him in places where people had disappeared. When he was arrested, his computer contained hundreds of photos and articles about missing persons.
In addition to his abductions, sexual assaults, and murders, he admitted to other crimes, including burglary, arson, and bank robberies, but he had no criminal record. He often selected small towns, where he expected limited law enforcement, to commit his crimes.
During his interrogations Keyes was often obscure and provided law enforcement with few real details of his crimes and victims. He only admitted to three murders – Samantha Koenig in Alaska, and the abduction and murder of Bill and Lorraine Currier in Vermont, but he hinted at one in New York, and four in Washington state.
“What happens when you only get a little bit of information is people theorize,” says Williams. “Since he only gave up a portion of the information it leaves so much room for speculation. So we can put him in a location, and then anything that happened in that time frame and in a radius of that area, could have been him.”
Interviewing the FBI
For the last three years Ash and Williams have been combing through just under 4,000 pages of the Keyes case files which were not in chronological order. They’ve also listened to and watched the audio and video from about 30 interrogations, which the FBI has released on their website. Ash and Williams say they’ve listened to and watched each of the interrogations at least two dozen times.
Getting started was intimidating. “Our second interview was with the FBI, so it kind of went from zero to sixty right away,” says Ash. “And our first interview was talking with someone, asking them the best way to interview the FBI. So, it’s been a big learning curve.”
Talking to an FBI agent for the first time was stressful, says Ash. But the conversation ended up being positive and encouraging. “I was amazed at how forthcoming they were with us,” says Ash. “They told us a ton of information. They want to find his victims – we could tell that. And I think they know this is the easiest way to get the information out there.”
Although Ash and Williams were a bit surprised the FBI was willing to talk with and share information about the case with a couple of amateur investigators, it actually makes sense, especially in a case as frustrating, with a perpetrator as ambiguous as Keyes, which ended so anticlimactically without his prosecution. “The FBI investigator we’re talking to came right out and said the best thing for cold cases is to have fresh eyes on it and keep it in the public mind,” says Williams.
“He actually interviewed Keyes twelve years ago, so he’s met him and knows about his possible crimes in the Olympics,” says Ash.
“We shared a few clips from some of the episodes we were working on, of a couple of leads we’ve drummed up, and they said we had really done a great job on it,” adds Williams. “He told us he was going to follow up on some of it. That really gives us motivation. It tells us we’re doing the right things. That our process is correct.”
Ash and Williams have a trip to Poulsbo, Washington planned for April to sit down with that same FBI agent for a second interview.
They’ve received assistance from a private investigator who has an interest in true crime and has voluntarily helped with records requests for case files and tracking down contacts for possible witnesses and the families of possible victims; she is also the person who helped them prepare for their initial interview with the FBI.
Ash and Williams have read notes from Keyes’ personal journals on the FBI website which reveal other details he didn’t share during law enforcement interrogations.
The Search Takes Shape
Keyes did give investigators two of his caches, one in Parishville, New York and one in Eagle River, Alaska. He tried to lead them to one in Vermont and told them about another near Green River, Wyoming; neither has been found yet. Keyes also told investigators he hid a cache near Port Angeles, Washington, and Ash and Williams believe there is one near Neah Bay, those last two have helped them focus their investigations for the first season of their podcast on the Olympic Peninsula. Ash and Williams have traveled twice to Vermont and searched around New England, New York, and Pennsylvania – searches on the east coast will hopefully be the subject of a future season of podcast episodes. “We’ve basically been checking any roadside pull off and any campgrounds or other places that fit the guidelines we’ve created so far,” says Ash.
Both Ash and Williams still have full-time jobs and families, so time to work on the project has been limited. “When we first started this, neither of us thought it would take three years to get the first episodes finished – that the research would take as long as it did,” says Ash.
"Josh and I are both really motivated to do creative projects, but we’d never done anything like this before,” says Williams. “But there were a lot of reasons for us to do it. One reason this looked attractive to us was because it meant we were going to get to go camping together and hang out by the fire and drink and talk about this story. But little did we know we’d be sitting at a computer most of the time.”
But still, they’ve spent numerous weekends on road trips, hunting for caches based on their research. They also have access to Keyes’ extensive travel records, which has helped guide their searches. They’ve really focused on the key words Keyes used to describe certain areas and landmarks he mentioned when describing places he may have hidden caches. And then using the few spots Keyes did lead investigators to as a reference for where to look for other potential hiding spots. Using maps and Google Earth software, they identify possible sites Keyes may have frequented – campgrounds, rivers, places with access to fishing. Then they go and scout the actual locations, and try to prioritize the possibility they might be spots Keyes hid a cache, while also planning return trips if a particular area or spot appears promising.
Developing the Story
The first season of approximately 10 episodes will begin being released in May, with a new episode available every two weeks. A trailer is now available and a website will accompany the podcast. Subscribers will be able to access additional content, interviews, conversations, and more. The first season will focus mostly on cases in the Pacific Northwest. The plan is to produce additional seasons on other areas around the country where it is believed Keyes may have been operating.
Each episode of “Somewhere in the Pines” will feature clips from law enforcement interrogations with Keyes, recordings of Ash and Williams discussing the case in various locations as they search for the caches, and interviews with local people in the towns they visit. Individual episodes will focus on one main lead in the cases, the story of Keyes being in a specific area, and their search in that area.
Nature sounds from the area will be included. “We really wanted to bring people into the environment, not just talk about it,” Williams says. “Bring them there with us and go on this adventure together.”
They have tried to feature the small towns they visit, where they think Keyes might have been active. “Our podcast is about following us to these locations and trying to show people the kinds of small towns he went to and lived in,” says Ash.
“They’re all towns like Vernonia – small and quaint places,” says Williams. “We wanted to get the feel of the people and the environment – the campsites and the rivers and the fishing that is around there. That was something that was important for us to highlight.”
Ash and Williams are perfectionists, who say they value the work process and have been willing to put in the time to make the production of the podcast the best it can be. Their background in music recording and film have proven useful in this endeavor. “We try to make the podcast somewhat theatrical in how each episode is laid out, with different acts,” says Williams.
It will also be produced with some music Ash and Williams have created themselves. “It will almost sound like a film score,” says Ash. “It feels sort of cinematic to us. At least that’s what we’re shooting for.”
One theory Ash and Williams have developed is that Keyes may have had caches with different purposes – weapons, cash, items to use in kidnapping someone. It’s believed some caches may contain trophies – items Keyes took from victims or crime scenes that would tie him directly to unsolved missing persons cases – cell phones, jewelry, credit cards, drivers licenses.
They hope their podcast might elicit tips, theories, or other input about the cases from listeners. “We want listeners to know, if you’ve thought of some crazy idea, – who cares, tell us – there might be some way we can use it,” says Ash.
Ash says, with the information they’ve gathered so far, they think they can potentially help in three suspected cases. “We’re hoping to push those cases along, which is really exciting, because that’s something we really hoped to do. The connections are there in the case file. There’s quite a few things we think we’ve been able to figure out to help some of the investigations move forward. We just have to put the pieces together.”
Williams says, throughout their investigations, they have tried to be respectful and have not contacted the families of the victims. “We feel like once the podcast comes out, if people want to, they will come to us. And we’ll make ourselves very available to them if they have information they think would be useful.”
You can listen to a trailer on their website https://somewhereinthepines.com/ and find them on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/SomewhereInThePines or look for Somewhere in the Pines wherever you listen to podcasts.
